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Encoding/Transcoding: Movie Only Quality
Over the past six months I have purchased Dvd2One,Dvd95Copy, DVDXcopy, and IC. I have also worked with DVDtoolbox and DvdShrink. Before that I worked with Ulead DVD Toolbox and Adobe Premiere. With all these choices I am narrowing down my sights to the best looking single disk movie only solution. I know that is is extremely subjective but I'm asking for opinions anyway. Given a final size of 4.37gb for movie only (6.5 gb for a movie before processing): Is there any clear winner for visual quality?
I say IC (If CCE is a breeze for you, use that for the larger stuff), but that's my opinion and others may agree or disagree as everyone has their own standards of what they regard as best quality and different means of viewing (see sig)
one the rules say you can't ask which is best cos stuff like this causes disagreements
but seeing as I'm in 1st I'm not disagreeing with anyone
use dvd toolbox to filter out the extras and unneeded audio amp; subtitle streams and then feed the movie to IC to shrink.
Muralin and MisterX:
The encoding prowess of IC is impressive but the hard work to bring it to size is a dice roll. For example, after splitting GRAY ZONE with DVDtoolbox I had the following:
Directory of D:\Gray_Zone\DVDToolbox\Disc1\VIDEO_TS
04/14/2003 07:07 PM 8,192 VIDEO_TS.BUP
04/14/2003 07:07 PM 8,192 VIDEO_TS.IFO
04/14/2003 07:07 PM 65,536 VTS_01_0.BUP
04/14/2003 07:07 PM 65,536 VTS_01_0.IFO
04/14/2003 07:04 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_1.VOB
04/14/2003 07:05 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_2.VOB
04/14/2003 07:05 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_3.VOB
04/14/2003 07:06 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_4.VOB
04/14/2003 07:06 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_5.VOB
04/14/2003 07:07 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_6.VOB
04/14/2003 07:07 PM 552,271,872 VTS_01_7.VOB 12 File(s) 6,994,857,984 bytes 2 Dir(s) 83,369,308,160 bytes free
After passing it through IC 7.02 and burning I had the following:
Directory of E:\VIDEO_TS
04/15/2003 04:21 PM 8,192 VIDEO_TS.BUP
04/15/2003 04:21 PM 8,192 VIDEO_TS.IFO
04/15/2003 05:30 PM 65,536 VTS_01_0.BUP
04/15/2003 04:21 PM 65,536 VTS_01_0.IFO
04/15/2003 04:40 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_1.VOB
04/15/2003 04:57 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_2.VOB
04/15/2003 05:16 PM 1,073,739,776 VTS_01_3.VOB
04/15/2003 05:26 PM 610,830,336 VTS_01_4.VOB 8 File(s) 3,832,197,120 bytes 2 Dir(s) 0 bytes freeThis should have been a sizing nobrainer even for IC.(DVD2one and DVD95copy correctly sized it). I can understand it if there were extras, etc. but...
As I said earlier, I'm looking for best quality movie-only which shouldn't involve any algebraic tweaks. Yes..full movie does require more massaging but movie-only should be hands off.
P.S. Thanks for your feedback in this quot;controversialquot; post. I guess I'll have to wait for this class of software to mature.
'Gray Zone' , it isn't a 2.35:1 aspect ratio by any chance is it? (read this HERE )
p.s. IC size predicting is a stroll in the park for some now
Most of my 'strolls' are with 2.35 stuff and I keep getting 'mugged' strolling through the IC park. As far as I'm concerned, movie only, 2.35 A.R. is almost a pure guessing game with IC (which often ends up consuming 6+ hours to get an acceptable final file size).
Acceptable for me is between 4.15Gb and 4.38Gb
P.S. when I tried 'Grey Zone' skin tones were 'blotchy' in IC and DVD21 had the movie going in and out of focus which made it completely un-enjoyable to watch. I finally just did a 1:1 split across two discs. Anyway, that's my recommendation.
monomer:
You are correct. When the movie size is over 6gb then a split is normally indicated. In the meantime, I'll hang out in the waiting room..waiting for the authors of all these pioneer fast copy programs to hone their encoding and transcoding routines. I'm sure there are more tricks up their sleeves.
Originally posted by monomer
Most of my 'strolls' are with 2.35 stuff and I keep getting 'mugged' strolling through the IC park. As far as I'm concerned, movie only, 2.35 A.R. is almost a pure guessing game with IC (which often ends up consuming 6+ hours to get an acceptable final file size).
'mugged' , funny
on most of my experiences anything over 70% with a 2.35 is when it starts to get dodgy
normally I would've used the extras to fix sizing but now if it's got a few extras then I do the extras in IC 1st and the menu/movie with DVD95Copy afterwards
p.s. jzaman was it 2.35:1 by the way?, have you got the option of using CCE?
MisterX:
I guess I could use CCE Basic or DV capture the audio/video stream but that is too much work. Whether a movie is 2.35:1 or not I can still lazily get a movie-only with DVD2One at the correct size. If I could plant the CCE Basic or IC encoding engine into DVD2One then I would have the perfect lazy user interface. This is not said to detract from your excellent guides and guides of others such as 2cool that bridge the gap in these programs. I just want my Movie Only Utopia. Is that asking for too much?
Movie Only Utopia:
(1) Rip DVD in file mode.
(2) Point program to it.
(3) Select movie only and sound tracks
(4) Select encoding/transcoding duration (30,60,90 minutes)
(5) Burn 4.37gb disk
Why don't you try DVD2DVD-R (It allows you to select the main movie file; the languages and subtitles you want; and if needed CCE does the encoding automatically. It's almost a one-click solution.
yep I agree MedicineMan, cos that's what I used to set it all up with minimal effort
personally I used to hijack DVD2DVDR during the CCE bit and then adjust settings myself using the same advanced method as the CCE guide on this site, though it wasn't necessary
then rebuild it all back together myself cos for movie only it's quite easy for most DVD's
MedicineMan and MisterX:
Never worked with DVD2DVDR. I think I'll give it a try. Thanks for the advice!
MedicineMan and MisterX:
Took your advice on trying DVD2DVD-R for 6.5+ gb movies.
(CCE Basic 2.67.01.09, DVD2DVD-R 1.47, and ingTool 1.00.4 with Nero 5.5.10.20 API)
I created a Grey Zone movie only DVD with forcefilm and 2:3 pulldown checked and it ended up at 4.34 gb which is full enough for me. It took about 2.5 hours but it does look very good. I can't figure out how to get an English manual unless I learn German and translate.
I am going to screen this movie with discerning eyes other than mine and compare the visual quality of CCE/DVD2DVD-R, Dvd2one, Dvd95Copy, IC and DVDxcopy movie-only copies. I'll do the same with Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones to get another reference point. After that I'll get drunk and they'll all look the same...
P.S. Both Grey Zone and Star Wars:Attack of the Clones sized to 4.34 gb without any tweaking. Takes longer than IC but it sizes more reliably so far.
2.5hours? WOW, jzaman...
...what are you running 'under the hood'?
The combination of DVD2DVD-R and CCE-Basic is now my new replacement for IC! I just tried it out on quot;Out Of Sightquot; (~5.4Gb movie only) and it took 3hours and 20 minutes (including the 2X Nero burn). That's about the same with IC, because with any 2.35 'movie only' I can never get the right file size the first time with IC and sometimes it'll take 3 or 4 or even 5 tries to get between 4.18Gb and 4.38Gb (I will no longer accept anything less). Each run through IC takes ~ 1.5hours and another 30minutes to burn it. So 2 runs in IC = 3.5hours total. BTW, I'm running an AMD 2000+XP, 512 DDR, Win XP Pro (with some 'tweaks' to the CPU and memory speeds).
jzaman... how did you go about donating to the DVD2DVD-R folks? I'm afraid to try the 'donation' button on their website, since it's all in German and I don't speak a 'lick' of it.
Originally posted by monomer
2.5hours?
jzaman... how did you go about donating to the DVD2DVD-R folks? I'm afraid to try the 'donation' button on their website, since it's all in German and I don't speak a 'lick' of it. I don't speak much German either but this seems to work OK.
translat...language_toolsIch bin ein DVD2DVDR mit user.....
monomer:
2.5 hours was for the Grey Zone which didn't include 15 minutes for the burn (4x). Star Wars: Attack of the Clones took 3 hours. I have a computer lab so to speak. My first (audio/video) machine has a p4 2.66 with a gb of rdram, geforce4 video, two 100gb hard drives and a 480gb raid0 hard drive array. My second (audio/video) has a p4 3.06 with a gb of pc3200 ddr, a 120 and 180gb hd, and a Radeon 9500. My third (music server)has a P4 2.80 with a gb of pc3200 ddr, 100 gb hd, and a geforce 3. My fourth (game machine) has an Athlon 2200+ with 512mb pc3200 ddr, Matrox Parhelia, and 100 gb hd. My fifth (file server) has a p4 2.4 with 1.5 gb pc133 ram, geforce 3, and removable hard drives. All machines except for the file server have a pioneer dvr-105 and pioneer dvd-117. I hand built all of them and all run on Winxp pro sp1 NTFS except for the file server which runs whatever op system I swap into it. Having all this stuff allows me to test all the crap I've collected. Since October I've purchased Dvdxcopy, dvd2one, dvd95copy,IC, CCE Basic and proferred donations for ingtool, DVDToolbox, and recently DVD2DVD-R. I also do DV/Analog captures through Canopus advc-100 units into Ulead DVD Toolbox which started me off on this after hours kick. During the day I manage a Computer operation that is not in the Audio\Video field.
I, like you, can not read German so I had to guess on what to do. Since I previously setup a paypal account to pay the rightful dues to these overlooked authors, I clicked the paypal icon in the donation section and typed in my paypal login name and password. I donated in euros and the author sent me a reg code that bears my name. I like it so far so I'll run anything with a movie 6 gb+ through it until it gives me grief.
Grover thanks for the excellent website translation... I didn't know google could do that.
I succeeded in giving a donation for this amazing program through Paypal and I found an English section in their forum... For anyone interested just go here: modules.php?...displayamp;fid=13
I will inquire about either the existence of or a future creation of an English version of the manual.
And jzaman... you've got quite the collection of computers. Your slowest system is far faster than my best. Consider me suitably impressed... and envious. One question though... I figured out why you selected ForceFilm... (when I didn't I experienced combing 'big time') but why did you select 2:3 pulldown?Originally posted by monomer One question though... I figured out why you selected ForceFilm... (when I didn't I experienced combing 'big time') but why did you select 2:3 pulldown?
I'm not sure if I made the right decision but forum discussions from heavy CCE users suggested that it is more efficient and it also covers all the bases if it is truly needed. Both Grey Zone and Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones played correctly in both my progressive and regular standalones with near original quality. Do I leave that off, quality control it, and then redo it with that option if it is needed? That would potentially create a six hour process per movie. What are the negatives of enabling 2:3 pulldown as a default?
P.S. I'm doing Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones again with 2:3 pulldown unselected to examine any differences.
Epilog: After redoing it without pulldown enabled it did not freeze when I skipped (with my remote) from scene to scene on a standalone I tried both on after I made this post. I guess I need to be careful about randomly selecting the pulldown option!
Just a follow up to DVD2Dvd-R and CCE Basic:
I went with all the CCE defaults encoding Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones except I also enabled Force Film. By default progressive frames, linear quantizer scale,zigzag scanning order and upper field first were enabled. I need to get more detail about these defaults and the pulldown option. Does anyone have a link or guide I could refer to?P.S. I consider the DVD2DVR-2/CCE Basic combo to be a quot;One click DVD backup solutionquot;.
jzaman...
I first tried ForceFilm-unchecked and got really bad 'combing'. I next tried ForceFilm-checked only and the resulting movie played perfectly in both my computer and in my Sony stand-alone player (non-progressive). Then I tried ForceFilm-checked and 2:3 pulldown-checked... the results were choppy stuttering in my computer's player (don't know about my STB because I didn't burn this one). Finally, I tried ForceFilm-checked, 2:3-checked, and flag progressive-checked and got really bad stuttering using my computer's player. If you have some time and decide to try this experiment also I'd be very interested in your outcome.
BTW, Chatwalker (the DVD2DVD-R guy) e-mailed me to say, quot;Not at this time. The german manual is also rather old and not up to date. Sorry.quot; I guess this means a lot of 'trial-n-error' type learning ahead.
Just read your last posting... my defaults keep changing with each movie I try... in 3 movies, I've had 3 different sets of defaults checked. |
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Post at 2011-4-15 14:36
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