OGM and AC3 doesn't seem to work. quality, multiple, create, future

andy

Hi all.

I am trying to create OGMs with multiple audio streams (one film in 4 or 5 languages; going from 2CDs rips to 3CDs rips). One of the streams is AC3. I'd like to retain the quality of AC3 for the future, for I think I will have a Home Theater in one year or so (when I get the money). I am also not very keen on transcoding (there's an unavoidable quality loss in it).

In this forum I have seen many threads celebrating that OGM could carry AC3, ogg vorbis and mp3.

I have tried to mux ac3 and ogg (both at 48000Hz), and:

-Cyrius's VirtualDub OGM crashes when it begins to mux.
-Koepi's OGGMux generates a file that none of BSPlayer and Zoom Player will play (BSPlayer simply does not start playing, Zoom Player stops and the picture goes black if the AC3 track is selected using quot;Audio Trackquot;; it plays only if the ogg track is selected; Stream selection with quot;Languagesquot; option is impossible).
(for these both cases, the ac3 is a wav-ac3)
-Waldogel's DShow filters, used form GraphEdit, generate a file that has 3 seconds length. This happens in both players.
(for this case, the ac3 is placed in an AVI, with the video, as the OGM-AC3 threads say)

My gear: PIII@800MHz. M/B Elitegroup P6BAP-Me (chipset VIA Apollo Pro133). 256 RAM. HD 60GB. Windows XP. Geforce2 MX 32MB.
OGGMux:  0.9.3
VDub OGM: 17-10-2002 version.
OGG Directshow filters: 0.9.9.5
OGG Subtitle mixer: 1.4.0.0
BSPlayer: 0.85 Build490
Zoom Player: 2.80

Has anybody any idea of what I should do to get ac3 working with OGM?
Has anybody noticed the AC3 stopped working with OGM after the last releases of the OGG directshow filters?

If details here are not enough, don't hesitate to ask for more.

Please, help me. It is really sad having 5 channels and having to reduce it to 2. Isn't it?

I guess there is no solution to this, so: can multichannel vorbis substitute AC3? Can it be outputted through spdif, like ac3?

Another issue that will come my way if AC3 and OGM finally work together is cutting. I have read some threads where it was discussed that cutting OGM could result in loss of frames or empty gaps when playing back. It could be even worse if there are AC3s and mp3s involved. Are there some proofs of that, and if there are, is there any workaround? I mean it clearly: do OGGCut or VirtualDub OGM cut OGMs with AC3/vorbis/mp3 propperly?

Many thanks to those who share their wisdom.  :-)

Hi

well with older versions of my VirtualDub mod there were a quot;lotquot; of bugs, that I tried to fix (at least a lot of them, maybe not quot;allquot; of them ).
Maybe using the latest version (22-10-2002) VirtualDub won't crash (I hope ).

For OggMux, there is a known issue where using an AC3 (waved) track  make the OGM unplayable (it's a problem with OggDS/DirectShow it seems).

For cutting I tried to make a proper job with VirtualDub (normally there won't be lost information in the cutting process, and I tried to get the streams synchronized ). But I cannot do miracles, maybe there are cases where it won't work as expected.

First of all: an honour to talk directly with the creator of this mod. It's a good job, man.

I have tried with your latest version (28-10-02). And it doesn't hang!!  The resulting file is playable with both players. Just one flaw, which maybe you can help me with. It is with Zoom Player. The movie won't start by itself. Once you load in into ZP, and hit play, the time counter starts and time passes, but the movie stands still at the first (black) frame. You have to seek to a point into the movie, and then it goes right. Any idea? This doesn't happen with BSPlayer, but BSPlayer plays ac3 and one ogg channel at the same time, though (some known fix to that)...  

Anyway: thanks, man.

About Tobias's DirectShow filters screwing up AC3-ogm: do we have to wait for a new release of OGGMux, or is there already a workaround?

About cutting: is the tool able to cut OGM containing mp3, vorbis, subtitles and ac3 all together? And one question about the tool's workflow: it is a long readme, and I'm not sure if I picked up the big picture right. The tool reads AVI and OGMs. You can process the video and each audio channel if the input is OGM (subsets, filtering, recompression), but only the video and first audio channel if it is AVI. Ain't that right? Can you capture to OGM? Can you change frame rate of an OGM?

Another question: should I understand that you VDub mod is using exactly the same code of your wonderful OGMTools? If I am right, why don't you integrate OGInfo in the File Information box. showing all that packet stuff? That would integrate your tools more tightly, I think. This has come also to my mind: can you merge/demux an OGMwith your tool? How? (not with Append AVI nor Save WAV I guess...)

By the way, you will also make us a favour if, in your infinite goodness, you completed the VDub Help file including some insight on the file structure of a OGG/OGM file (header, packetization... all the things that make you capable of finding solutions when you get a screwed up file and you don't know what to do -other than going to Doom9's forum :-)- ). Also some Summary about AVIs will be definitely a help (or links to HUMAN-READABLE, technical overviews on AVI or OGM.

I can imagine your face right now: what the f*ck is saying this guy? Excuse me, Mister Pirata! I AM NOT YOUR MOTHER!! Stop demmanding things right now! :-)

Bye and thanks again.

One last feature request, Cyrius: it would be really useful having a preview for each OGM channel (including subtitles), where you can (e.g.) synchronize audio streams with the video, or see if the Subtitle mixer can read the subtitle streams. You will have to select which stream to preview (if you change from one atream to another, the processing settings -such delays- should change accordingly).

Originally posted by pirata
Once you load in into ZP, and hit play, the time counter starts and time passes, but the movie stands still at the first (black) frame. You have to seek to a point into the movie, and then it goes right. Any idea? This doesn't happen with BSPlayer, but BSPlayer plays ac3 and one ogg channel at the same time, though (some known fix to that)...

Yeah I already experienced such problems but I don't know where it comes from neither how to solve them (other than by seeking).

About Tobias's DirectShow filters screwing up AC3-ogm: do we have to wait for a new release of OGGMux, or is there already a workaround?

AFAIK there is no workaround.
Maybe future versions of OggMux or OggDS will solve the problem (but maybe it is not easy).

About cutting: is the tool able to cut OGM containing mp3, vorbis, subtitles and ac3 all together?

Theorically you should be able to cut OGM files containing up to the maximum number of streams an OGM gile can handle, whatever are those streams (well, there must be only one video stream, and other streams must be audio or text).

And one question about the tool's workflow: it is a long readme, and I'm not sure if I picked up the big picture right. The tool reads AVI and OGMs. You can process the video and each audio channel if the input is OGM (subsets, filtering, recompression), but only the video and first audio channel if it is AVI. Ain't that right? Can you capture to OGM? Can you change frame rate of an OGM?

Well sometimes I am lost in this readme too
To sum up : I didn't changed anything regarding the natural behaviour of VirtualDub (regarding AVI/WAV files, ...).
I added features so that you can open an OGM file, and save to an OGM file.
If you open an OGM file the audio (and text) streams won't be handled like VirtualDub does for AVI (i.e. you cannot recompress the audio, nor change framerate, ..., but you can use an offset).
However you should be able to use a WAV file (and so use recompression, ...) with the quot;Audioquot; menu.
But the video is handled as usual, which means you can do what you want (recompress, add filters, change framerate, use subsets, ...). Of course when you use subsets those subsets will also apply to all the streams you want to add.

Another question: should I understand that you VDub mod is using exactly the same code of your wonderful OGMTools? If I am right, why don't you integrate OGInfo in the File Information box. showing all that packet stuff? That would integrate your tools more tightly, I think. This has come also to my mind: can you merge/demux an OGMwith your tool? How? (not with Append AVI nor Save WAV I guess...)

Well I used the same muxing process than in OGMuxer, so in this way this mod use the same code.
If I ever integrate OGMInfo I think this won't be in the File Information Box, because for large files it takes some times to gather the info. Moreover I won't show all the information (-v1, -v2 or -v3) because it can take up to 10% of the filesize (a 700MB OGM file =gt; 70MB of text info using -v3 ; a bit too much to show  that ).
No you cannot merge or demux with this mod. Merging is a bit too hard to do, so don't expect it to be integrated in a near future (at least not by me) ... or maybe if I have nothing else to do and enough time . However I may add a demux button (surely in the quot;OGM inputsquot; window) soon (well ... or not, depending if I am motivated  ).

By the way, you will also make us a favour if, in your infinite goodness, you completed the VDub Help file including some insight on the file structure of a OGG/OGM file (header, packetization... all the things that make you capable of finding solutions when you get a screwed up file and you don't know what to do -other than going to Doom9's forum :-)- ). Also some Summary about AVIs will be definitely a help (or links to HUMAN-READABLE, technical overviews on AVI or OGM.

Even if I am not sure this would help anybody with a screwed up OGM file, I can add some info. What do you mean by quot;VDub help filequot;?

One last feature request, Cyrius: it would be really useful having a preview for each OGM channel (including subtitles) ...

Well this would be great, but I have no way to do that
I don't know enough things on how to do that (the way VirtualDub does it) for audio, and it's worse for text streams (I cannot use DirectShow/SubtiDS that easily because VirtualDub doesn't use DirectShow)
But if anybody wants to give a look on that and add this feature, feel free to do so .

I can imagine your face right now: what the f*ck is saying this guy? Excuse me, Mister Pirata! I AM NOT YOUR MOTHER!! Stop demmanding things right now! :-)

WTF are you saying? Excuse me, Mister Pirata! I AM NOT YOUR MOTHER!! Stop demmanding things right now!

, unless some helping hand guides me. I am en electrotechnical engineer, and I feel myself able to do these things, but I really feel I need help. For that reason, some kind of summary (with some insight and references to deeper docs) would be highly appreciated.

OK. I look forward to news from you. Cheers!

Pirata

, unless some helping hand guides me. I am en electrotechnical engineer, and I feel myself able to do these things, but I really feel I need help. For that reason, some kind of summary (with some insight and references to deeper docs) would be highly appreciated.Well I just used VirtualDub for the AVI part. But I will do my best to write some sort of guide for Ogg/OGM file structure (hmm maybe it will looks like the doc on Xiph site which is the one I read to start  ).

Well: the second half will play only if the selected audio stream is other than the ac3 stream. If you try to play with the ac3 stream enabled it freezes. If you go from mp3 or vorbis to ac3 it freezes. One difference between the first half and the second half is that when you start the first half the timer starts counting. This does not happen in the second half (it sounds unimportant, but maybe it is not). And believe me (I told you this with tears in my eyes): SEEKING DOESN'T FIX IT.  :-(

Look Cyrius: I begin to have the impression the original ac3 stream is fucked up. It doesn't play quite right in my player. I'll do another test with another ac3 I just got from a friend. I'll tell you tomorrow. I hope things will be right this time and evrything will work (cutting included).

(NB : when having so much streams be sure to disable quot;Enable all streamsquot; in OggDS because this generally prevent the OGM from being played).

I have it always disabled.

The quot;OGM inputsquot; window should show all the (valid audio or text) streams in your (OGM) input file.
What are the streams not shown in your case? All streams are valid (i.e. you can enable any of them when playing back) ?
You can also use OGMInfo to see if everything is OK with the file.

The film I loaded was precisely the first half of the movie. All steams are valid and playable in Zoom Player, and DONE OF THEM is showed in the Show inputs dialog window.

When your input file is an AVI, the main (i.e. first) audio stream remains in the quot;Audioquot; menu (so you can recompress it, change samplerate, ...). Other audio streams are not taken into account.

So is it impossible to transfer an AVI to OGM without demuxing the audio? Wouldn't it be nice to load the avi with audio and video and to have a switch in the Audio menu named quot;Transfer avi audio stream to ogm inputsquot;?  :-) It seems something natural for a OGM-modified VirtualDub. Would it be difficult to implement?

One more thing: the first half is prone to freezing when you seek, switch the language, switch for some seconds to another application window, or post the Zoom Player context menu. Seems that the movie is not very easy to play. In AVIs, it could mean some bad interleaving value. Is there something similar in OGM? Can it be there a playability issue in files generated by your tool?

One last thing: you have said that things like OGM merging/demuxing or synch preview wil be really difficult to implement. I understand it, and just have one thing to say. Have you tried to contact withthe other OGM-guys, Koepi and Tobias? Maybe they can be helpful with the OGM details (not the VDub details, by which only Avery Lee can be helpful), so that the implementation becomes a little bit easier. It is just one idea. Always thought working in group makes things easier.   :-)

OK. I let you alone and stop bugging you! Seriously: thank you for your time and patience.

Pirata

Sorry but 5 (or 6) channel vorbis cannot be decoded by a dolby pro logic amp, and afaik doesn't do cross channel compression so the size per sound quality gain will not be very much if any at all (relative to ac3).

ps
Thanks for the great mod of vdub Suiryc, it is so much easier to find a good split point for my multi-cd movies  

one error in my last post:

Where it states quot;and DONE OF THEM is showed in the Show inputs dialog windowquot;, it should state quot;and NONE OF THEM is showed in the Show inputs dialog windowquot;.

Originally posted by pirata
The film I loaded was precisely the first half of the movie. All steams are valid and playable in Zoom Player, and NONE OF THEM is showed in the Show inputs dialog window.

Oops, I think you like to open your files by using quot;Open withquot; or Drag'n'drop with VirtualDub ...
Sorry but I just (think about and) noticed those two ways don't work with OGM files (well it works for opening the file but it then doesn't load the streams in the quot;OGM inputsquot; window)

So is it impossible to transfer an AVI to OGM without demuxing the audio? Wouldn't it be nice to load the avi with audio and video and to have a switch in the Audio menu named quot;Transfer avi audio stream to ogm inputsquot;?  :-) It seems something natural for a OGM-modified VirtualDub. Would it be difficult to implement?

The audio stream handled in the quot;Audioquot; menu is muxed in the OGM file. This mean you can transfer an AVI (but only video+first audio stream) to OGM.
The other possibility is to use OGMuxer which take into account all the audio streams in the AVI (and can solve some out of synch issues when some of the audio streams are VBR ones - and that VirtualDub give you the well-known message about a VBR stream  )

One more thing: the first half is prone to freezing when you seek, switch the language, switch for some seconds to another application window, or post the Zoom Player context menu. Seems that the movie is not very easy to play. In AVIs, it could mean some bad interleaving value. Is there something similar in OGM? Can it be there a playability issue in files generated by your tool?

Maybe, but in some ways I cannot do that much against that because it is also the Ogg library which makes the interleaving.
I give data to the Ogg layer (and I think I use a good way), which in return give me quotagesquot; (which size is generally about 4kB). Then I write the Pages in the quot;good orderquot; (i.e. time order) in the file.

One last thing: you have said that things like OGM merging/demuxing or synch preview wil be really difficult to implement. I understand it, and just have one thing to say. Have you tried to contact withthe other OGM-guys, Koepi and Tobias? Maybe they can be helpful with the OGM details (not the VDub details, by which only Avery Lee can be helpful), so that the implementation becomes a little bit easier. It is just one idea. Always thought working in group makes things easier.   :-)

I already make tools that allow merging and demuxing. The demuxing tool is not that hard to do (it is in fact the easiest), but the merging is.
But what is more difficult is to integrate that in VirtualDub (I mean using VirtualDub internal structure and routines).PS : no need to post errata for previous posts, you can edit the faulty one

Hi

I made a (really basic) doc on some things to know when manipulating Ogg streams. I put it on the site.

I am not really good at making docs, so if you don't understand some/anything, tell me.
If you need other information tell me too.
(Nb : for the moment I didn't talked of headers in Packets)

Hi Cyrius. I have tested with the new AC3 I got, and I ran into problems.

I muxed video+ac3+ogg vorbis+ogg vorbis+ mp3 +srt with your tool, cutting into 2 halfs.

The ac3 comes from a movie which is not the same as the one I take the video track of -I am still downloading the ac3 for that video track!-, although their durations are almost equal. So: the movie I take the ac3 of is split in 2 AVIs, so I had to join them and extract the audio with Nandub (actually with a modified version that also opens MPEG2, meybe you have heard about it).

After muxing, the first half plays as usual (you have to seek to have it start playing; subs OK; synch SEEMS OK -far much more testing needed-, language switching and playback are quite smooth).

In the second half it plays well (you don't even have to seek to have it start playing!?!), but... there's a problem. If you seek circa 8 minutes into the movie, the ac3 track ends exactly at the joining point of the 2 original avi files. So, somehow, Nandub joins the 2 ac3s in such a way your muxer does not accept, and when it hits the joint point, it considers there is no more ac3 data left to mux.

After searching in the threads, I have seem nothing but some comments about Nandub not muxing nor cutting properly AC3. There is also the possibility of bad preload/interleaving values.  What is the problem about Nandub not cutting right? And does OGM use interleave values I should take care of? I mean, if interleave values are responsible for jerky/choppy playback, how can I fix that in OGM? Are those prolems impossible to fix in OGM?

I have also found comments about BeSweet, BeSplit and BeSliced being able to fix that. I have ripped the AC3 streams from each AVI separatedly, and I want to fix/mux them with those tools. BeSplit and BeSweet seem able to fix and join, but I get only fixing , no joining. Do you know the right command line options for that? An what about the WAV header? It will be erased by any of those tools. It is not necessary for your muxer tool?

I've tried this, from the AUDIO FAQs:

quot;7) how can i join ac3 files ?
let's say you want to join stream1.ac3,stream2.ac3,stream3.ac3 into stream.ac3.
create a listfile. join.lst :
stream1.ac3
stream2.ac3
stream3.ac3

and then, use BeSweet :

code:---------------------------------------------------------
BeSweet -core( -input join.lst -output stream.ac3 -payload )
--------------------------------------------------------------

this will also work on CBR mp3 files.
note - Since BeSweet v1.4, this process requires VOBInput.dll. get it from BeSweet's PlugIn Page. quot;

...BUT IT DOESN'T WORK. BeSplit is able of doing the same, but they both just answer with the help tips when I give such input. The dlls semm to be there (they all). The lst file seems right, also.

I've also seen written by DarkAvenger:

In fact a copy /b file1.ac3+file2.ac3 out.ac3 should do it. Only thing is, the time stamps are not correct and you must make sure, that the first ac3 doesn't end in the middle of a frame. (If you open it in HeadAC3he and don't get a warning, you are fine.) If you do get a warning, choose ac3 target and start. Then you can merge the files safely.

HeadAC3 says the files are right, but I know that copying includes the header of the second file... don't like that.

Put simply: I don't know how to join the ac3s to make an ac3 that your muxer will mux right.  Any idea?Some questions on your last reply post:

Oops, I think you like to open your files by using quot;Open withquot; or Drag'n'drop with VirtualDub ...
Sorry but I just (think about and) noticed those two ways don't work with OGM files (well it works for opening the file but it then doesn't load the streams in the quot;OGM inputsquot; window)

-Yeah, the problem was drag'n drop and file associations. If you open VDub OGM and then open the file, OGM inputs do appear properly. Could you make VDub OGM compatible with that features?  :-)  I mean they are really useful.

The audio stream handled in the quot;Audioquot; menu is muxed in the OGM file. This mean you can transfer an AVI (but only video+first audio stream) to OGM.
The other possibility is to use OGMuxer which take into account all the audio streams in the AVI (and can solve some out of synch issues when some of the audio streams are VBR ones - and that VirtualDub give you the well-known message about a VBR stream  )

- I've opened the AVI correctly, but the audio stream is not present in OGM Inputs anyway. You mean it is muxed although it is not visible? ANd how do you set comments for it?

Originally posted by pirata
So: the movie I take the ac3 of is split in 2 AVIs, so I had to join them and extract the audio with Nandub (actually with a modified version that also opens MPEG2, meybe you have heard about it).

You are talking of VirtualDubMpg2?  Look here.

In the second half it plays well (you don't even have to seek to have it start playing!?!), but... there's a problem. If you seek circa 8 minutes into the movie, the ac3 track ends exactly at the joining point of the 2 original avi files. So, somehow, Nandub joins the 2 ac3s in such a way your muxer does not accept, and when it hits the joint point, it considers there is no more ac3 data left to mux.

Exact. I read the AC3 file frame by frame. Unfortunately Nandub doesn't care of cutting in the middle of a frame.
So when my tool jump on the point where Nandub cut (or where the file may be corrupted), it doesn't find a new frame and assume the stream is finished.
See below for a workaround.

And does OGM use interleave values I should take care of? I mean, if interleave values are responsible for jerky/choppy playback, how can I fix that in OGM? Are those prolems impossible to fix in OGM?

No there is no real interleaving values (like for AVI) with OGM.

I have also found comments about BeSweet, BeSplit and BeSliced being able to fix that. I have ripped the AC3 streams from each AVI separatedly, and I want to fix/mux them with those tools. BeSplit and BeSweet seem able to fix and join, but I get only fixing , no joining. Do you know the right command line options for that?

Sorry I don't use those tools features so don't know how to use them.

An what about the WAV header? It will be erased by any of those tools. It is not necessary for your muxer tool?

VirtualDub need the WAV header only if you use the quot;Audio -gt; WAV audioquot; menu. You want to get the AC3 working in your OGM, so there are two ways to do the job for you here :
1. Extract the WAV from your merged AVI, and open it using the quot;Audioquot; menu (quot;WAV audioquot;). This way I use the standard routines of VirtualDub (which means VirtualDub won't artificially end the stream where Nandub joined the files, because it doesn't take care of that). To set the comments, use quot;OGM -gt; Audio commentsquot;
2. extract each AC3 part (remove the WAV header if any), fix them, join them, and use the merged AC3 in quot;OGM inputsquot;

I've also seen written by DarkAvenger:
...

Unfortunately the copy /b won't fix cut AC3 frames.

- I've opened the AVI correctly, but the audio stream is not present in OGM Inputs anyway. You mean it is muxed although it is not visible? ANd how do you set comments for it?
lol sometimes my english sucks. So : when you open an AVI file, the first audio stream is handled as usual (in the quot;Audioquot; menu), so you won't see it in the quot;OGM inputsquot; window (which only show streams concerning OGM files).
To set its comments, use the quot;OGM -gt; Audio commentsquot; menu.

VirtualDub need the WAV header only if you use the quot;Audio -gt; WAV audioquot; menu. You want to get the AC3 working in your OGM, so there are two ways to do the job for you here :
1. Extract the WAV from your merged AVI, and open it using the quot;Audioquot; menu (quot;WAV audioquot;). This way I use the standard routines of VirtualDub (which means VirtualDub won't artificially end the stream where Nandub joined the files, because it doesn't take care of that). To set the comments, use quot;OGM -gt; Audio commentsquot;
2. extract each AC3 part (remove the WAV header if any), fix them, join them, and use the merged AC3 in quot;OGM inputsquot;

About broken frames: so the comments I read about Nandub not cutting ac3 properly is that the last frame gets can get fractioned, right? What happens with the remainder of that frame? Is it placed in the first frame of the second half (so it is half-a-frame), or is it discarded (so padding is needed)? DarkAveger says that such an issue should be detected by HeadAC3 and a message should arise when opening the ac3 with that tool. I tried that and no message arose, so the file should be OK. But your muxer says the contrary. I believe your muxer.

About 1.: so the ac3 will get muxed in the OGM? And what about when the player reach the broken frame? Is that frame somehow padded by the original VDub routines? What will I be getting if I go this way?

About 2: HOW???  It seems the quot;cleanestquot; way, and removing the headers/fixing the broken frame is possible with besplit/besweet, but I don't know how to merge them.

By the way: when VDubOGM cuts the OGM file, is it a clean cut (no broken ac3 frames) as far as a keyframe is selected for cutting? So, if I cut it now and I try to merge with OGMerger later, should the resulting file be as it never had been cut, or are there issues and cautions I should consider? (I am thinking on the possibility of a future migration from CF-Rs to DVD-Rs)

About VirtualDubMod: what can I say? It is the most intelligent idea in ages. If you don't depend on a lot of tools, but on 1, and the people coding that tool are as helpful as you are, the world turns shiny. :-)  I think that Avery Lee should get involved, tough, because he would help a lot - I guess- with the VDub innards, which seems to be what you fear the most. But I don't know if he's keen to colaborating. He wasn't ever involved with hot new standards. Anyway, you could try to get him in the staff.

A few questions: will we see some general improvements, like OGM audio stream synch preview (including AC3 and MP3 VBR), demuxing, ogm file info, open MPEG2 files (not only VOBs)?  :-)  I guess yes, but step by step.

I just want to say: keep up with that. You're going to be famous.

Originally posted by pirata
About broken frames: so the comments I read about Nandub not cutting ac3 properly is that the last frame gets can get fractioned, right? What happens with the remainder of that frame? Is it placed in the first frame of the second half (so it is half-a-frame), or is it discarded (so padding is needed)? DarkAveger says that such an issue should be detected by HeadAC3 and a message should arise when opening the ac3 with that tool. I tried that and no message arose, so the file should be OK. But your muxer says the contrary. I believe your muxer.

I don't know how works HeadAC3, but there are two different problems : broken frame at the beginning (for example when extracting the second AC3 part) and broken frame at the end.
When the broken frame is at the beginning, generally you just synch on the next frame and the rest should remain synched.
Maybe HeadAC3 just warn you in one case, but not in the other ...

About 1.: so the ac3 will get muxed in the OGM? And what about when the player reach the broken frame? Is that frame somehow padded by the original VDub routines? What will I be getting if I go this way?

VirtualDub routines don't know what is inside the WAV file (it can be AC3, MP3, WMA, or whatever). So if there are broken frames, it is not a problem because VirtualDub just read the data as they are (this means of course that the stream still contains the broken frames, but it is then up to the decoder to take care of that, as it was the case when the stream was in the AVI/WAV file).

About 2: HOW???  It seems the quot;cleanestquot; way, and removing the headers/fixing the broken frame is possible with besplit/besweet, but I don't know how to merge them.

As I said I don't know how to use those tools for those features. Sorry.

By the way: when VDubOGM cuts the OGM file, is it a clean cut (no broken ac3 frames) as far as a keyframe is selected for cutting? So, if I cut it now and I try to merge with OGMerger later, should the resulting file be as it never had been cut, or are there issues and cautions I should consider? (I am thinking on the possibility of a future migration from CF-Rs to DVD-Rs)

It depends. With an OGM input there is no real problem cutting because in this case I am like VirtualDub : I don't care what is inside the Packets (the stream), I just keep Packets I have to keep, and throw the others.
When you use an extern file (using quot;OGM inputsquot;), I do a proper cut (I don't cut in the middle of an AC3/MP3 frame).
If your input file is an AVI or you use quot;WAV audioquot;, then this is not a proper cut because it is then VirtualDub that cut the stream (not my routines).

but ogg vorbis.Originally posted by pirata
I have thought of Zoom Player and its programmer because it is the only one that plays full-fledged OGMs, but you now there is an effort to code THE REAL OFFICAL OGM PLAYER (don't remember the name).

Last time I checked all Direct Show players play the OGM/Ogg files just fine. The quot;officialquot; OGM player is called Core Media Player and is expected for public beta release pretty soon.

Does BSPlayer play OGMs with OGG Vorbis+ac3+mp3 properly for you? Not for me, I assure you.

All mp3 tracks plus all ac3 tracks plus one vorbis are played simultaneously and there's nothing you can change about it.

Zoom Player mutes all tracks but one and allows switch with the quot;Audio Trackquot; option.