5.1 WAV files... missing codec? project, single, definition, generated, problem

andy

Speaking as a total newcomer to the wonders of generating 5.1 audio, I'd like thank ursamtl for the lovely VI plug-ins which I'm using with with Pogule Bidule.

I would like to generate a single six-channel WAV file which I can slot into an AVI file, which will then be transcoded into high definition WMV for an Xbox 360 project I am working on.

The only problem is that the WAVs generated by Bidule cannot be opened by Media Player.

I could encode into AC3, but it seems crazy to introduce two levels of audio compression into my project. Am I missing something really simple here?

WMV HD does not support wav as audio, afaik.
You will have to encode to WMA-9 to be compliable to standard.

WMV-HD is not a newly developed codec, but merely an extension to the normal WMV-9 codec to support HDTV resolutions. WMV-HD conform videos feature a 5.1 surround soundtrack, which is encoded in WMA-9.

The most current version of the format is Windows Media Audio 9.1 which includes specific codecs for lossless, multi-channel surround sound and voice encoding in addition to the main lossy codec. Both constant and variable bit rate encoding are supported.
Yes, but the point is that the six-channel WAVs I am generating I cannot open - not with Media Player, and certainly not within the Media Encoder.

Any ideas on how to actually *listen* to the 5.1 WAVs I am generating? If DirectShow can open them, then presumably Windows Media Encoder can encode from them.



Eek !!! You actually WANT to use Media Player ?
Hehe, sorry, my mistake.  

And can't help there, won't touch it with a 10 foot pole...

Well it would be helpful if DirectShow could read the files, that is the point I am making. The choice of which media player I would use to listen to them is pretty much irrelevant - the point being that if they play back from within Media Player or Media Player Classic or whatever, then the Windows Media Encoder will be able to encode them.

So the question remains is Pogule Bipule producing a bad output or do I need a specific codec to be able to listen to/encode six-channel WAVs?

I'm sure there are some audio filters that will allow you to play 6Ch WAV files

If install FFdshow and visit their quot;Audio Codec Configurationquot; settings, click on quot;Codecsquot; and then navigate down to quot;Uncompressedquot; and set it to quot;All Supportedquot; you should be able to play 6Ch WAV's in MediaPlayer Classic....

I don't know whether it will work for WMP9/10 though.... If not you may have more luck installing and configuring AC3 Filter, which should show up in your filter chain...Cheers

Beautiful! Yes, ffdshow does a wonderful job of playing the audio. Many thanks SeeMoreDigital

I’ve also had problems with playing 6 channel wave files, and encoding them to DD5.1 AC3 files.  I found this program called quot;dbpowerAMP Music Converterquot;.
dmc.htm
Below are my notes on using it, you should give it a try:
“If you have a quot;Wave Format Extensiblequot; audio file that is a 5.1 wave or a stereo wave file it will mess up other audio programs like Soft Encode.  You will want to convert it to a quot;WaveFormat Headerquot; audio file.  This can be done by right clicking on the audio file and selecting the quot;Convert Toquot; option there. In the dbpowerAMP program set it up using: Converting 1 File to “Wave” (In easy2Bcheesy’s case you could select “Windows Media Audio V9.1) then on the next line have “Bits as Source” selected amp; “48000Hz” amp; “6’5.1” for a audio file that is a 5.1 wave.  When you press quot;Convertquot; you will open up another window where you can rename the file by pressing quot;F2quot; on you keyboard (if the file to be saved is in the same folder as the original file). You can also start the quot;dbpowerAMP Music Converterquot; program by selecting it in the Start menu.  The program has a 30 day trial for converting to a MP3, but after that has expired it will still work with other types of audio files.”
Also there is a setting in Plogue Bidule located in “Edit’ then “Preferences” then “Disk I/O” that is called “use WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE:” have that set to “never” and you will create 6 channel wave files that you can play and encode with without having to use dbpowerAMP on them.  Hope this works for you.

Hi BobCat,

I don't know whether this might be any use to you but you can also configure FFdshow to quot;transcodequot; 6Ch WAV (and other formats) to 6Ch AC3, in real-time.

I use this method quite a bit myself

I can now playback the files but the Windows Media Encoder still thinks that it's unsuitable to use this audio to transcode into 5.1 WMV, or else it just crashes.

No idea what I can do about this really. I've tried the ffdshow on-the-fly filters, but it seems to make no difference whatsoever.

Any ideas?


Originally Posted by easy2BcheesyI can now playback the files but the Windows Media Encoder still thinks that it's unsuitable to use this audio to transcode into 5.1 WMV, or else it just crashes.

Hmmm!

I asked about transcoding 6Ch WMAPro to 6Ch AC3 myself some months ago.... And StephanV directed me to FFdshow.

I think the earlier FFdshow builds were more accommodating because I was able to play and correctly map my 6Ch WMAPro speaker test file.

Have you tried AC3Filter?

bobcat: I turn off WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE completely in the Pogule Bidule program itself so it shouldn't be an issue here.

Just tried an episode of Desperate Housewives that's in DD5.1 and I'm getting the same errors.

Windows Media Encoder really is a piece of junk - unfortunately, Microsoft won't accept any Xbox 360 video encoded with any other tool.

SeeMoreDigital: AC3Filter tweaks allow me to encode Desperate Housewives but not my uncompressed WAV file!

@SeeMoreDigital, Hi, are you actually encoding 5.1 AC3 to a file using ffshow, do you use GraphEdit to do this, and if so what does your filter chain look like?  I have heard of people doing this, but I see no option in ffshow where you can specify where to write a file to.

I wonder.... would any of these command-line utilities help you at all

By-the-way, I'm sure Windows Media Encoder is able to encode 6Ch AC3 streams directly to 6Ch WMAPro, without encoding to WAV first (although M$ does not like to shout this feature from the roof-tops)  Cheers

Yes, the Desperate Housewives encoding shows it can go from AC3 to WMA, but I'm still stumped as to how to get a six channel WAV to work.

I think I'm going to have to render my AVI and the Desperate Housewives AVI through GraphEdit to see what is going on.


Originally Posted by easy2BcheesyYes, the Desperate Housewives encoding shows it can go from AC3 to WMA, but I'm still stumped as to how to get a six channel WAV to work.

Why do you actually need the 6Ch WAV again?

EDIT: You could mux the 6Ch AC3 audio stream and the WMV9 video stream into the AVI container.

Or encode the 6Ch AC3 stream to 6Ch WMA9 Pro and mux this along with the WMV9 video stream (using the Stream Editor tool) into the WMV container.Cheers

@easy2Bcheesy
WaveWizard can convert any kind of wav files to the desired format 16/32 bit, int/float, WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE or not.
You only need to know what format accept Media Encoder.


Originally Posted by easy2BcheesyI think I'm going to have to render my AVI and the Desperate Housewives AVI through GraphEdit to see what is going on.

Now I come to think about it I seem to remember having a similar conversation about this subject before...

When you play a 6Ch WMAPro file in MediaPlayer Classic using FFdshows filters it's possible to obtain a correctly mapped file. But when you try and do the same in GraphEdit, using the same filters, all you get is 2Ch audio  Cheers

@ easy2Bcheesy have you given dBpowerAMP a try on your 6 channel wave file, re-encoding it to another 6 channel wave file and seeing if you could hear it with Windows Media Player?  I just downloaded the 5.85MB WMA codec package from the dBpowerAMP website that is needed to encode to Windows Media Audio using dBpowerAmp.  Using the “Codec” “Windows Media Audio 9.1 Professional” I encoded a 6 channel test wave file that had a voice speaking the 6 channels correct positioning one at a time, to a 5.1 WMA audio file.  The channel order on my speakers was correct when I played back the 5.1 WMA file, so I know this works correctly.  I know this does not solve your dilemma of not being able to hear your 6 channel wave file using Windows Media Player, but it does give you an option to get your 6 channel wave file converted to a 6 channel WMA file you can use with Windows Media Encoder without going through a AC3 conversion.


Originally Posted by easy2BcheesySpeaking as a total newcomer to the wonders of generating 5.1 audio, I'd like thank ursamtl for the lovely VI plug-ins which I'm using with with Pogule Bidule.

I would like to generate a single six-channel WAV file which I can slot into an AVI file, which will then be transcoded into high definition WMV for an Xbox 360 project I am working on.

The only problem is that the WAVs generated by Bidule cannot be opened by Media Player.

I could encode into AC3, but it seems crazy to introduce two levels of audio compression into my project. Am I missing something really simple here?

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you're enjoying V.I.

I use Bidule itself to playback 6-channel waves. Another option is Foobar 2000 with the outputs set to kernel streaming. I've also read that Foobar will playback in 6 channels using the Directsound output but I've found that on my system, it only works with the kernel streaming output. It will play both 6-channel wave files or AC3 files as well. As such, I find it's very useful for checking files before encoding.

Regards,
Steve.