I want to capture from VHS at the resolution of 352*576 and then encode it to a interlaced DVD. I want to crop away junk at the sides of the picture and I am wondering if I destroy the field order or something if I do this during caputring. I also want to apply a soft smooth filter to remove some of the noise. I probably do that in the Mpeg2-encoder. Does this mess up the field order too?
Kalle
Yes, you will mess up interlaced video if you filter it. The proper way to do this would be to convert it to a progressive filtered mpeg2 and then apply pulldown to it.
And when you crop right up to the video content, you will most likely see less of the picture you're interested in (the actual video content) when you output the DVD on the TV, due to overscan.
Don't crop, is my advice. At least test it! The junk and black bars will probably not be seen on the TV, as it ends up in the non-safe title area (the overscan area) anyway.
/Swan
If the MPEG2 encoder's smoother filter supports field mode, i.e., it smoothes the fields individually, then it will not cause any problems.
gt;If the MPEG2 encoder's smoother filter supports field mode, i.e., it smoothes the fields individually, then it will not cause any problems.yes,CCE has decent lo-pass filter and even some NR of its own...
(and i tend to turn off completely ( NR off amp; lo-pass set to let all the frequencies to encoder) as smoothing i don't like...)
btw. i don't agree that this junk should be left there
as it will eat bitrate that can be used wisely (or is it
just that one divx man wants to save every-which way?hehe)
for svcd i would go for null transform (crop) and resize to add
black borders
(as uniform black bar is easier to encode than noisy black bar+junk)
or just avs' quot;addbordersquot;.......
and i would do the same for dvd too.....
cheers
Ivo
btw. i don't agree that this junk should be left there
Correct. You are absolutely right. It's easy to add a black border to mask the junk at the bottom of the video that appears on some captures from VHS, at least it's easy in TMPGEnc. And that won't influence interlace.
/Swan
I will try to add the black borders when encoding. I think I will be using TMPEG to encode the movie. Does it's smooth-filter support field-mode? I don't want to make it progressive because then I have to deinterlace it which will make it look bad on moving parts. I can't apply pulldown to it because the movie is originally shot on Hi-8 PAL 25 fps.
Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
gt;
for svcd i would go for null transform (crop) and resize to add
black borders
(as uniform black bar is easier to encode than noisy black bar+junk)But to crop it you have to deinterlace it, right? In virtual dub you can crop while capturing too. The reason I want to crop is
1. It will encode better without the junk
2. Since I have a width of 352 I want to use all the with for the actual picture without any junk
But you are right that if you crop it you will not see as much of the picture on a tv because of overscan.
gt;I will try to add the black borders when encoding. I think I will be using TMPEG to encode the movie.
then,we MIGHT hear from you sometime next year.....(hehe yes that
sucker is slow!)
gt;2. Since I have a width of 352 I want to use all the with for the actual picture without any junk you're talking horizontal crop,and we're talking vertical
crop of vhs junk (so called quot;head-switchingquot; effect) on bottom of the
image....
but if you need the horizontal crop indeed (as i don't know what artefacts your hi8 produces on the sides) then no problem too!
crop your video on the sides(quot;null transformquot;) (sure no deinterlacing is needed!)
then go for quot;resizequot; and input cropped size (for example 345x576),and in lower box
go for quot;expand frame and letterboxquot; and enter 352x576
that way you get black borders on the sides....
as no real resizing was done (you only added borders),i think you can even disregard filter mode
(but just incase i set it to precise bicubic.hehe)
when you watch such video,there are no worries (352 should be ok for dvd player if it supports svcd/cvd) and AR will be ok,as you didn't really resized the image but only substituted junk with black bars....
if the junk was previously visible on tv,now it won't be visible,as there'll be quot;invisiblequot; black bars
and just a sidenote:mpeg encoders seems to hate black borders which are not 16 pixels,as their motion compensation engine gets confused.(ie. visible in hi-motion scenes)...but on higher bitrates it should be less visible,and for sure it's better than encoding the noise (junk on sides)cheers
Actually I wanted to crop both horizontal and vertical. I haven't tested on the Hi8 material yet, because I currently don't have a capture card in my computer but I am preparing for the capturing I will be doing later when I get a capture card and a dvd burner. I have seen capured VHS before and there usually is some crap or black bars on the sides of the image too.
I don't want to use virtual dub and render another movie were I have applied the cropping because I don't have disk space for that. The avi-file will be around 80 GB so I just want to open it I TMPG and do all the post processing there (I hope both virtual dub and tmpg support that large file sizes).
I searched for an option to add black borders in tmpg and I found that using the crop-filter and check top, bottom, left and right mask seems to work. Is this the right way to do it? Is it very obvious if you do something that destroys the interlacing?
I don't want to use virtual dub and render another movie were I have applied the cropping because I don't have disk space for that
I think what ^^-+I4004+-^^ meant was crop and so on in VirtualDub, then frameserve the video to TMPGEnc. But you can crop and add black borders to cover up junk in TMPGEnc, so I don't see the need for VirtualDub in your case.
I searched for an option to add black borders in tmpg and I found that using the crop-filter and check top, bottom, left and right mask seems to work. Is this the right way to do it? Is it very obvious if you do something that destroys the interlacing?
Yes, that is the right way to do it. As long as you don't touch the vertical resolution of the file (576), interlace will be preserved in TMPGEnc, as far as I know.
It is not obvious if one messes up interlace, until one outputs the video to the TV (using Tv-Out and Mpeg-2 playback filters that *don't deinterlace* or burning to an SVCD or DVD).
I suggest you test encode a small portion of your video, make the adjustments you want in TMPGEnc, and output this to the TV, if you have TV-Out and check.
But is 352 x 576 really valid for DVD? I think you need to use 720 x 576!?
Perhaps your questions are better aimed at the TMPGEnc forum?
/Swan
I didn't know that you could frameserve from Virtual Dub to Tmpg. I have heard that you can't frameserv with avisynth so I thought that applied to Virtual Dub too.
I looked at this thread that discusses the valid DVD resolutions.
showthread.php?s=amp;threadid=40180Valid DVD resolutions:
MPEG-1: 352x240 (NTSC) ; 352x288 (PAL)
MPEG-2: 352x480, 704x480, 720x480 (NTSC) ; 352x576, 704x576, 720x576 (PAL)
Do you know a decoder that doesn't deinterlace? I am currently using the Intervideo decoder and I'm not sure if it deinterlaces the movies. I know that if you uses Intervideo Windvd the picture is always deinterlaced, but I don't know about the direct show filter.
I didn't know that you could frameserve from Virtual Dub to Tmpg. I have heard that you can't frameserv with avisynth so I thought that applied to Virtual Dub too.
Wrong, You can frameserve to TMPGEng both with VirtualDub and with avisynth (I use avisynth all the time, as most of the forum members).
Originally posted by kallekill
showthread.php?s=amp;threadid=40180
Thanks, I didn't know this.
One of the posters says the 352 horizontal resolution will be stretched on playback. Sounds plausible. Hmm.. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
I think you'd get a better looking video if you use 720 x 576.
Do you know a decoder that doesn't deinterlace? I am currently using the Intervideo decoder and I'm not sure if it deinterlaces the
Intervideo deinterlaces. I know of only three playback filters that don't: Ligos LSX Mpeg Player(takes pride in not deinterlacing, it's even stated in their FAQ), the latest playback filters from Main Concept and the latest (I think) beta version (I think) of Elecard's filters has the option to turn deinterlacing off.
I own Ligos LSX-Mpeg Player 4 and highly recommend it. The demo is fully functioning for 30 days.
/Swan
As I have understood it, the video is always stretched during playback. Even when using a resolution of 720*576. Of course it isn't stretched as much as with 352*576 but the picture is always streched to a aspect ratio of 1.33. 720*576 has a aspect ratio of 1.25.
The reason I want to use 352*576 is that I want to be able to fit 4 hours+ on 2 4.7 GB dvds. I get a better quality with a with of 352 when using that low bitrate. Anyway, VHS doesn't have have a high enough resolution that would benefit from using 720*576.
Thanks for the info on the Ligos Player. I will try it out. |
Post at 2011-4-15 15:10
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