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Polar Express Angle Problem
I haven't been able to find anything here or elsewhere on dealing with the angles present in Polar Express R1. Usually the angles are in separate cells and I just blank the cells containing the unwanted angles in VobBlanker and then insert a cell command to jump to the next good cell to minimize the delay in the player. I have tried all recommended methods dealing with angles and this is the only one I've come up with that works reliably. All other methods have failed.
The problem is, in this title the angles are contained in the same cell so my method won't work. The angles are not selectable via the angle button on the remote but are selected automatically based on the language you choose. The angle used determines the language of the newspaper displayed for instance in the first chapter. Worse, IfoEdit doesn't allow you to choose an angle. 'Remove Angles' is greyed out in the VOB Extras dialog.
I tried just burning it as is but had the usual problems in the set-top player - all angles were played.
I have no idea how to deal with this. Can someone with experience with this please help out. BTW I want to make a two-disk split so DVDShrink, etc., are out.
foobaz, what you describe is extremely common, at least in cartoons. I've seen lots of disney titles that have this kinds of angles (for titles, newspapers etc). Why do you want to remove the angles anyway? If you're doing a two-disc split, you don't need to remove the angles, right? What's this about your settop player playing all angles?! Was that using your original, or a backup? How did you do this backup?
jeanl
The problem is that the angle cells are interleaved (ILVUs) and all angles play in succession. You can see this in the PgcEdit previewer as well. Try for example cell 3.
As I stated, usually the angles are in separate cells, including Disney titles, so I can just blank the unwanted cells. VobBlanker de-interleaves the remaining cells so they play normally. This is the first time I have encountered them all in the same cell.
I have no idea why a rip would behave differently from the original but it always does. It works just fine in a software player like WinDVD. Why can't some tool, like DVDD, PgcEdit, VobBlanker, etc. just fix this?
foobaz, I'm not sure what you mean. True angles are always in ILVUs, otherwise, they would be played following one another. PgcEditPreview always shows the angles consecutively, because it's not smart enough to jump from one ILVU to the next. But maybe you mean, in some movies you have the english/french/spanish versions in different PGC that reference different cells. Note that in such cases, playback is usually not seamless (that's the reason why angles are used, really).
In any case, you're saying that when you rip, then create your two-disc backup, everything works fine on your soft player, but no in your settop box? This is very strange and abnormal...
Anyway, I'm afraid I don't have much advice to give you... Sorry....
jeanl
BTW - If you're talking about converting to .AVI, that's a whole different story (Just rip one PGC)
Originally Posted by jeanlTrue angles are always in ILVUs, otherwise, they would be played following one another. PgcEditPreview always shows the angles consecutively, because it's not smart enough to jump from one ILVU to the next. But maybe you mean, in some movies you have the english/french/spanish versions in different PGC that reference different cells.Code:
VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:39:45) Title 1 - Chapters: 25, Programs: 25, Cells: 54
Playback time: 01:39:45.21 (at 30 fps)PG Playback mode: sequentialPUOs: 0 (0x00000000)NextPGCN: 1PrevPGCN: 1GoUpPGCN: 0PGC Still Time: 0Audio stream 1 status: 0x00008000 (stream=0)Subpic stream 1 status: 0x80000100 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=0, letterbox=1, panamp;scan=0)Subpic stream 2 status: 0x80020300 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=2, letterbox=3, panamp;scan=0)Subpic stream 3 status: 0x80040500 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=4, letterbox=5, panamp;scan=0)
Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Ang VOBU Cell Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell(PTT) Flags Break Still Still Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID Time # sector End Start End
1 1 1 2 yes - no 0 0 00:03:28.10 00:03:28.10 19726 0 107103 107419 5 1 2 10 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:03:32.10 107420 0 108575 108803 6 1 3 14 no - no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 108804 109290 147598 147791 7 1 4 12 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 147792 147876 150213 150359 7 2 5 10 no - no 0 0 00:00:45.14 00:05:02.00 151538 0 164925 165073 10 1
Code:
VTST 1 , 2 TTN 2 (1:39:45) Title 2 - Chapters: 25, Programs: 25, Cells: 54
Playback time: 01:39:45.21 (at 30 fps)PG Playback mode: sequentialPUOs: 0 (0x00000000)NextPGCN: 0PrevPGCN: 0GoUpPGCN: 0PGC Still Time: 0Audio stream 2 status: 0x00008100 (stream=1)Subpic stream 1 status: 0x80000100 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=0, letterbox=1, panamp;scan=0)Subpic stream 2 status: 0x80020300 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=2, letterbox=3, panamp;scan=0)Subpic stream 3 status: 0x80040500 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=4, letterbox=5, panamp;scan=0)
Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Ang VOBU Cell Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell(PTT) Flags Break Still Still Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID Time # sector End Start End
1 1 1 2 yes - no 0 0 00:03:28.10 00:03:28.10 19726 0 107103 107419 5 1 2 10 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:03:32.10 107420 0 108575 108803 6 1 3 14 no - no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 109291 109768 148039 148265 8 1 4 12 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 148266 148350 150802 150948 8 2 5 10 no - no 0 0 00:00:45.14 00:05:02.00 151538 0 164925 165073 10 1
This title has 3 separate PGCs for the three languages. In each PGC there are cells with ILVUs. For example, cell 3 above. The PGCs all reference the same content and are therefore parallel. The only difference is that the Entry VOBU sector, etc. and the VOB IDs for corresponding cells in each PGC are different for the ILVU cells.Code:
Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Ang VOBU Cell Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell(PTT) Flags Break Still Still Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID Time # sector End Start End
PGC 1 3 14 no - no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 108804 109290 147598 147791 7 1 4 12 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 147792 147876 150213 150359 7 2
PGC 2 3 14 no - no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 109291 109768 148039 148265 8 1 4 12 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 148266 148350 150802 150948 8 2
From this can be inferred that each PGC uses a different section of the same cell for its particular language.
I have commonly seen the case where there is only one PGC but multiple ILVU cells for the different languages. A good example is Myazaki films. This allows simply blanking unwanted cells. But this case is different since the same cell is used for the different languages. If there is a tool that will blank just the unwanted VOB IDs and de-interlace the cells, that would probably work.
In any case, you're saying that when you rip, then create your two-disc backup, everything works fine on your soft player, but no in your settop box? This is very strange and abnormal...
I don't think this is that unusual. I recall many posts where people had the same problem with Star Wars and The Matrix.
Originally Posted by setarip_oldThis is what I did: If you simply rip this DVD, using DVD Decrypter set to its default settings, the rip will not exhibit the behavior you've described.
It plays fine in a software player but did you try it in your set-top player? This is not an uncommon problem.
It plays fine in a software player but did you try it in your set-top player?
Yes. I compressed the DVD Decrypter v.3.5.4 DVD quot;packagequot; with DVD2One. The resultant burned DVD plays perfectly on all of my standalone DVD players.
BTW - Mine is also Region 1...
Same here. I can't speak about polar express, but all the star wars, and all the matrix DVDs have been no problems. I think it's rather unusual for a backup to exhibit problems with angles. I think you should try to figure out what the problem is withe the settop box, rather than try to remove angles (which isn't that easy).
From looking at your last example, there is a problem here. The angle flag should be set! I can see that 7/1 and 8/1 are interleaved, but if that's the case, then there needs to be an angle flag, right? can you check in your original if the original IFOs show an angle flag?
Jeanl
Originally Posted by jeanlI think it's rather unusual for a backup to exhibit problems with angles. I think you should try to figure out what the problem is withe the settop box, rather than try to remove angles (which isn't that easy).
I don't know but I see many posts about removing angles here. Why would you do that unless you were having a problem playing the angle? As far as the set-top, the problem is it is cheap and apparently not smart enough to deal with the rip anyway. It has no such problem with the original though. Still, I don't understand why the rip would not behave identically to the original. BTW I have tried DVDFab in the past and it copied all the angles and they behaved just like the original on the set-top. So why don't DVDD rips behave the same way?
From looking at your last example, there is a problem here. The angle flag should be set! I can see that 7/1 and 8/1 are interleaved, but if that's the case, then there needs to be an angle flag, right? can you check in your original if the original IFOs show an angle flag?Code:Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Ang VOBU Cell Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell(PTT) Flags Break Still Still Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID Time # sector End Start End
1 1 1 2 yes - no 0 0 00:03:28.10 00:03:28.10 19726 0 107103 107419 5 1 2 10 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:03:32.10 107420 0 108575 108803 6 1 3 14 no - no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 108804 109290 147598 147791 7 1 4 12 no - no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 147792 147876 150213 150359 7 2 5 10 no - no 0 0 00:00:45.14 00:05:02.00 151538 0 164925 165073 10 1
It's that way in the original too but it does work OK in the set-top. I really don't know enough about ILVUs to understand the nature of the problem and I have not been able to find detailed information on the web. And I don't want to pay $5,000 for Book A and Book B of the official DVD spec. (Anyone have a link to the pdf of this? )
BTW I have tried DVDFab in the past and it copied all the angles and they behaved just like the original on the set-top. So why don't DVDD rips behave the same way?
I mentioned this previously as a suggestion, so now I'll phrase it as a question:
Have you altered ANY of the original default settings for DVD Decrypter? (You shouldn't have)- or used any additional software to make any changes (You shouldn't have)?
@foobaz - as you have noted, each of the different title PGCs seems to have different VIDs - it's just the way the titles have been constructed. Why don't you strip the VIDs you don't want with IfoEdit?
Regards
Originally Posted by setarip_oldHave you altered ANY of the original default settings for DVD Decrypter?
Yes I changed them years ago and I changed the number of read error retries due to the recent spate of discs with the dread ARcoSS corruption. But why would this affect angle play?
BTW are you ripping the whole disc using File mode?
BTW are you ripping the whole disc using File mode?
Yes...
Originally Posted by setarip_oldHave you altered ANY of the original default settings for DVD Decrypter?
I reset DVDD 3.5.4.0 to the default settings via the 'Defaults' button and did a rip in 'File' mode. The results were exactly the same, as I expected. I don't see why this would make any difference. So maybe jeanl is right. Maybe it is my player. But my player has no problem with the original so why the difference? DVDD must be altering something . . . ? ? ? Can anyone here explain this?
foobaz, maybe more info might be needed: I assume polar express is a DVD-9, what did you use to do your two-disc split? Maybe the problem is here?
I'm still very surprised by the lack of angle flags, but I'm not an expert with angles, and if you say the original does not have them and plays just fine everywhere, then that should be fine. There is something different, however, between your original, and the modified version obviously... So, if I were you, I would try to compare the original unaltered IFOs with the modified one (after splitting), and try to see if there's any difference. I use a program that I wrote to do that, if you send me the IFOs at jeanldvd at free dot fr, I can try to see if I see any difference. Of course, there will be difference because of the splitting...
Can you describe the entire procedure you followed to get the your final burn?
jeanl
P.S. Also, if you have a friend with another DVD player, try to play it on his/hers, that would be informative...
foobaz, I took a look at your IFOs, and I can see something wrong. You still haven't told us how you did the disc split, so I'm not sure where the error comes from but here's what I see that seems wrong.
Open VTS1 - PGC1: This is the original
Code:
Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Res- Still Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell(PTT) Flags Break tric- Time Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID ted. sector End Start End
1 1 1 2 yes no 0 0 00:03:28.10 00:03:28.10 19726 0 107103 107419 5 1 2 10 no no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:03:32.10 107420 0 108575 108803 6 1 3 14 no no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 108804 109290 147598 147791 7 1 4 12 no no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 147792 147876 150213 150359 7 2
And this is your modified, disc 1, version:
Code:
Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Res- Still Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell(PTT) Flags Break tric- Time Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID ted. sector End Start End
1 1 1 2 yes no 0 0 00:03:28.10 00:03:28.10 20 0 87397 87713 5 1 2 10 no no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:03:32.10 87714 0 88869 89097 6 1 3 10 no no 0 0 00:00:40.06 00:04:12.16 89098 0 102177 102370 7 1 4 8 no no 0 0 00:00:04.00 00:04:16.16 102371 0 103232 103378 7 2
As you can see, in your modified version, the fields quot;First ILVU endquot; are all 0. This is crucial information that's missing. First ILVU end indicates the end of the first interleaved unit in the cell (i.e. in this case, where cell 8/1 starts).
Furthermore, your flags are missing the quot;interleavedquot; tick, which means the player isn't aware that the cells are interleaved...
I think this explains what you see. You mention in your email that quot;What
happens is, the correct angle does play back in the set-top but it is
choppy and pixellated in transition spotsquot; . This would be consistent with the player not being quot;readyquot; to jump over the interleaved cells and showing some problems at boundaries. This would also explain why soft player can deal with that (they have much longer look-ahead).
In any case, there's a problem with the way you've done your split. Can you give us more info?
Thanks,
Jeanl
Originally Posted by jeanlI assume polar express is a DVD-9, what did you use to do your two-disc split? Maybe the problem is here?
Wow, that was fast. OK, I ripped it with DVDD 3.5.4.0 using 'File' mode. I modified the entire title with PgcEdit 0.6.1 to eliminate warnings, etc. I used AddChapter 1.2.0.2 to add a blank cell to the movie PGC and enabled all operations so the forward button can be used to skip the closing chapter. I then split it using VobBlanker 2.0.0.2. I only blanked chapters 19-24 in PGC 1, the English version and didn't bother with the other two language PGCs since they reuse the video content. I then added a LinkTailPGC cell command with PgcEdit to skip over blanked cells after kept cells are played. I added a 'Continued on Disc 2' VOB with PgcEdit and removed irrelevant chapter buttons. Then I created an ISO and burned it with ingBurn using the PgcEdit interface. I have done this procedure many times and the only time I ever have a problem is when there are ILVUs.
BTW I get the following warning in PgcEdit when I open the disc 1 split:
Code:
Warning: There are different commands
in the various PGCs of the menu LUs
of the VTST 1 domain.
This is somewhat unusual, and may cause
problems with the 'Set Menu Type' and
'Copy LU Commands' functions.
I'm still very surprised by the lack of angle flags, but I'm not an expert with angles, and if you say the original does not have them and plays just fine everywhere, then that should be fine.
Yes, I posted the original above. You can see it is identical.
I use a program that I wrote to do that, if you send me the IFOs at jeanldvd at free dot fr, I can try to see if I see any difference.
Done . . .
Thanks so much for your kind consideration in helping me with this frustrating problem.
Originally Posted by blutachWhy don't you strip the VIDs you don't want with IfoEdit?
I tried this but the chapter points were all messed up. I tried to fix them with IFOUpdate but it didn't work. In any case, I'd rather not have to remove angles since it is always such a hassle and it would be nice to have them available. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Originally Posted by foobaz. I then split it using VobBlanker 2.0.0.2. I only blanked chapters 19-24 in PGC 1,
VobBlanker de-interleaves the cells. So it clears all the First ILV pointers in the PGCs. (And many others in the VOBs)
This is NOT a multiangle DVD, but a ILV multistory (may be it is not the fully right name, but...) In this kind of DVDs the length of the different branches can be different, and IIRC the joints can (must) be non-seamless. Alien Quadilogy is another example of this.
In a multistory made using a true multiangle (like Star Wars or the incredibles) the length of the different branches must be the same.
In any case I do not understand why your player is playing all the cells. The player must follow the PG chain, and the quot;storiesquot; are different cells (7/1 amp; 7/2 versus 8/1 amp; 8/2)jsoto |
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Post at 2011-4-15 14:45
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